[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: In Defense of North
I agree, Stephen. I worked with a student yesterday on a paper she came in
"to have the grammar looked at." It was supposed to be a character
analysis, but it was a summary of "A Rose for Emily." She made no progress
on what she thought she had come in for, but she did understand the
difference in plot summary and character analysis before she left. I'm
looking forward to seeing her next week and seeing how she does with her new
information. The paper is due on Monday, so the grammar may not show any
improvement over her earlier essays. But now she does know how to write an
introduction and a thesis that will let her analyze a character. I think
that is a vast improvement, and she left feeling like she had overcome a
major hurdle.
-----Original Message-----
From: snewmann@sfasu.edu [mailto:snewmann@sfasu.edu]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 9:38 AM
To: wcenter@ttacs6.ttu.edu
Subject: Re: In Defense of North
Bear with me one more time on North's point please.
I meant to say in my last note that when we hear from a
prof. that his
student's essay was not any better after she'd visited the
W.C. that does
not mean that we did not help that student. I think that
often a writer
begins to "improve" as a writer--begins to comprehend the
process
better--while the effects of that clearer vision might not
show up for
another essay or two. If we try to make each essay better
rather than
focusing on the writer in our tutorials I believe we do our
clients a
dis-service. but when we focus on helping the client to
become a better
writer her writing will ultimately become better, too, if
we've been
successful at that. Probably still clear as mud, huh?
stephen
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 snewmann@sfasu.edu wrote:
> Katie, What Beth has said below in response to your
questions is true for
> us, too.
>
> RE: item "c" about the emphasis on grades. That goes back
to what I'd
> tried to say earlier in defense of North. When we help
students become
> better writers we also help them to produce better writing
which
> ultimately affects their grades (not just in their Comp
courses). There
> are times for us, too, when the grades are not
consistently better for the
> W.C. clients and, like Beth, we then focus on what does
look good in our
> assessments. Very few of our clients are "required" to
come to us. Just
> the fact that our clients are motivated to seek our help
makes me think
> they are more likely to be successful students than might
those who do not
> seek our help. One last thing about grades. In the
courses we track
> often a higher percentage of non-clients earn "A's" than
do clients. We
> attribute this to our suspicion that "A" students are less
likely to seek
> writing help from the W.C.
>
> As is the case with Beth, having access to this
information has been a
> tremendous help to us in securing funding for our tutoring
programs here.
>
> stephen
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Dr. Beth Rapp Young wrote:
>
> > I'm not Stephen, but since we have also compared grades
of uwc clients vs
> > nonclients (in w-i courses where students come to the
uwc in large numbers, such
> > as fyc), I can offer my answers to these questions.
> >
> > a) obliterating confidentiality? As a university
support service, we have access
> > to the student records database, and can obtain SAT
scores, grades, and other
> > info for purposes of program assessment--a fairly
standard procedure which other
> > support services also follow. The person who obtains
this data signs a
> > confidentiality agreement in advance (actually, we ask
all staff to sign
> > confidentiality agreements) and works on a secure
computer.
> >
> > We follow the usual procedures for analyzing
confidential records; we collect all
> > the data, then remove identifying info (such as student
id numbers) from the file
> > before we begin to work with the data. When we report
results, we do so for the
> > entire group of students, not for one student at a time.
When working with
> > records for hundreds of students, it is pretty difficult
to notice individual
> > grades anyway.
> >
> > b) trusting the grades? Since we get the grades from the
student records
> > database, we don't have to ask students to self-report.
> >
> > c) sending the message that a wctr is supposed to raise
grades? This one is
> > trickier. Of course, I put disclaimers in every report
that mentions
> > grades--it's pretty easy to explain that grades usually
depend on more than
> > writing (tests, attendance, etc.), so good writing alone
does not an "A" make.
> > My annual report always highlights other measures too
(e.g., student satisfaction
> > measures, client comments, increases in #s of clients,
etc.) And, frankly, we've
> > found that grades are not always higher for wctr clients
. . . in which case, I
> > find something else to brag about. (There's always
something!)
> >
> > But it's clear that administrators like to see concrete
evidence that the uwc has
> > some effect on student writing, or, at the very least,
that we're looking for
> > that concrete evidence. This year, our writing center
was awarded a 56% budget
> > increase to expand services--currently one-time money,
but I've been given reason
> > to hope that the increase will be continued in future
years. I credit the fact
> > that we are carrying out these sorts of assessments with
helping us obtain that
> > increase.
> >
> > As we are a relatively new writing center, it may be
more necessary for us than
> > for established centers to demonstrate that we're
helping students.
> >
> > kfischer wrote:
> >
> > > Stephen, offlist here, how in heaven's name do you
track their grades and SAT
> > > scores without a) obliterating confidentialitiy; b)
trusting credibility (if
> > > the grades are reported by students, themselves); c)
paying credence to the
> > > abhorrant notion that a w.c. is supposed to raise
grades (as opposed to
> > > assisting with writing)?
> >
> > Beth Young
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > Dr. Beth Rapp Young Building: LS-616, +1347
> > Director, University Writing Center Office: 407-823-2853
> > Assistant Professor, English Fax: 407-823-3007
> > University of Central Florida, Orlando Email:
byoung@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu
> > http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~byoung
> >
> > "Nulla dies sine linea."
> > -Pliny
> >
> > "Writers are people who write."
> > -Donald Murray
> >
> >
>
>