Re: Letters of Reccomendation -Reply

[Stephen Newmann <newmann@msmary.edu>]

:)  Twila, it sounds to me as if we are singing out of the same hymnal
here. :)  --stephen

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 typapay@rollins.edu wrote:

> Stephen, thanks for the clarification!  I too would like to shift the
> concept of assessment.  On the other hand, I never really feel compelled
> to write letters.  I guess I like having the choice and being able to note
> the really good work many of our peer writing consultants do.  I just
> talked a peer consultant out of wanting a reference from me--I'd fired him
> for not showing up pretty regularly.  When I said I's have to write the
> circumstances under which he left, he asked, "What were they?"  This is
> not the student I'd write for.   He still wanted to give Forbes Magazine
> my name for a phone call to verify employment, and I could only repeat
> that this would put him in the position of explaining how he'd changed in
> terms of commitment to the job!
> 
> Mostly I'd like to find better ways of determining who should be hired or
> admitted.  But I doubt if our proposals would reach far by themselves.  We
> probably need partnerships with the corporate and industrial world if we
> want to have a voice in how this is done.  Maybe a better place to start
> would be our own institutions.  If we demonstrate that we can develop
> better means of assessment than those we don't really believe in, we might
> be taken more seriously in making changes elsewhere.
> 
> Where do people get their notions that everything has to be measured and
> analyzed in certain very particular ways?  From teachers--at least
> starting at about age 5 and continuing through the "terminal" degree--that
> is, if one survived it despite the term.
> 
> twila
> typapay@rollins.edu 
> 
> On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Stephen Newmann wrote:
> 
> > Twyla, I didn't mean to suggest that we should not write these letters for
> > our students--only that we should not *have* to write them.  I'm
> > suggesting that others are putting their own responsibilities of assessing
> > students preparedness for whatever it is students want to do onto
> > educators.  I'm suggesting that educators should have only to offer
> > education and should be able to let others worry about determining how
> > much of that education has "taken".  Same goes for grad school as for the
> > workplace in my mind.  If we were to stop credentialing folks many would
> > lose interest in education and especially in graduate education.  I doubt
> > graduate schools would be overrun by students and those who could not cut
> > it (ie, could not learn what was being offered) would just go elsewhere
> > and do other things.  --stephen
> > 
> > On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 typapay@rollins.edu wrote:
> > 
> > > Stephen, I understand the point you make about our perhaps not being the
> > > best people to assess our students' preparation for the corporate world.
> > > I wonder if you would make the same argument regarding graduate school
> > > letters?  If we can't write any letters, who will be doing such assessing?
> > > 
> > > I have another concern as well.  Whatever our own politics, in my area
> > > students cannot be considered for most jobs available to them without
> > > letters of reference from faculty.  (Of course, they also use Writing
> > > Center directors for employer letters, as we do employ them to do a job--
> > > and presumably assess their work periodically.)
> > > 
> > > Do we have the right to take our students' money for four years (I know, I
> > > know, we give good value--the best in the market--for it), then refuse to
> > > give them something they need to make use of their educations for
> > > earning a livlihood?  I realize, of course, that the great value of what
> > > we all teach goes far beyond the market and paychecks.  But I do want my
> > > students to survive financially in order to do all the meaningful value-
> > > building work their educations have introduced them to!
> > > 
> > > Just wondering.
> > > 
> > > Twila Yates Papay
> > > Rollins College
> > > Winter Park, FL
> > > typapay@rollins.edu
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>