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Re: Motivating Correctness
Hi, Meg --
I'm a little confused. I don't think of intrinsic motivation as something
that can be "done" in any amount of time. I've always considered this
element to come from a fairly deeply internalized constellation of needs
such as self-worth. I certainly can't make anyone feel worthy in 30
minutes. Well -- nah. But I can, immediately when the student sits down,
interact with her as a worthy person, and treat the paper as a valuable
work. Past that, I can only hope for the best -- as far as I know.
I'm also confused by your description of the intrinsically motivated
students as wanting to "put the best face possible" on their work. This
differs significantly from what I understand instrinsic motivation to
produce; rather than a desire to make their work look good, intrinsically
motivated students generally want their work to be good -- i.e. clear,
interesting, engaging, provocative.
Margaret
clark@dt.uh.edu
On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Meg Larson wrote:
> Thank you Twila, because I hadn't thought of motivation in this regard. I
> know how powerful my role as consultant is, but I hadn't considered what I
> do in terms of motivating grammatical correctness (the dreaded "g" word and
> all). I'm fortunate as a tutor, in that I'm working with 2 Eng 111
> students on a regular basis, and they seem to have a good grasp of grammar
> concepts and seem to be motivated intrinsically to put the best face
> possible on their work. But you're absolutely right when you say that
> students interest in their work is heightened by sharing it with a peer; I
> know how important the wcenter is to our "clients" and I can't imagine
> _not_ working with them in the wc . . .
>
> "Never look where you're going--you'll only scare yourself"---
>
> P.J. O'Rourke
>
> Meg Larson
> Saginaw Valley State University
> mgl@tardis.svsu.edu
>
> ----------
> > From: Twila.Yates.Papay@rollins.edu
> > To: Multiple recipients of list <wcenter@ttacs6.ttu.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Motivating Correctness
> > Date: Monday, November 25, 1996 3:50 AM
> >
> > Actually, Meg, I often find that the peer writing consultants do a better
>
> > job of motivating our clients than do the faculty. In my own case as a
> > writing teacher I work very hard on motivation, but it isn't until my
> > students work with peer consultants and discover the genuine interest of
> > another student in their writing/thinking/ideas that they begin to really
>
> > care about the finer points. When they come to see that the peer
> > consultant is misreading because of lack of clarity, inadequate
> > connections, inappropriate word choices and sentence combinings, as well
> > as the larger global issues we always work on first, they are more
> > interested in coming back for repeat visits. Just as they become
> > motivated to develop a structure, provide evidence, explain more fully,
> > etc. through their conversations with the peer consultant, so too they
> > want their writing to make sense in the paragraph and sentence
> > structures.
> >
> > I think as a peer writing consultant, you have a great deal of power
> > here. I wouldn't want to give that up for my students. I know I
> > wouldn't be able to teach any more without the WritingCenter. . . .
> >
> > twila yates papay
> > typapay@rollins.edu
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Meg Larson wrote:
> >
> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >
> > > ------=_NextPart_000_01BBDA33.BD092120
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > >
> > > As I replied earlier, Christine, I don't know how the writing center
> can
> > > possibly take on the role of intrinsic motivator--in thirty minutes,
> > > there's barely enough time to address the things that need addressing,
> etc.
> > > The kind of motivation you're talking about is intrinsic, and no
> amount of
> > > extrinsic motivation can foster, in students, the desire to be
> > > intrinsically motivated. In other words, the desire to be
> grammatically
> > > correct has to come from inside the student and, as a tutor in the
> writing
> > > center, I don't see how I can "make" this happen in the limited amount
> of
> > > time I have to spend with students who seek my help; for the most part,
> > > students still see me as the "fix it" person. I agree with your
> assumption
> > > that if it's mine, and it's going to be published, I want it to be
> perfect,
> > > but the desire comes from inside me, and no one person or thing put it
> > > there; it stems from the "it's got my name on it" place. The first
> thing I
> > > have to realize, as a wc tutor, is that not everyone sees writing the
> same
> > > way I see it.
> > >
> > > I guess the real problem here is how to make students proud of their
> > > authorial exploits and proud to admit ownership thereof; as a tutor I
> can
> > > encourage this to a certain extent, but only if I ignore other factors,
> > > such as the parameters of a given assignment, the instructor's
> > > predisposition towards grammatical correctness, etc. And then, the
> other
> > > thing that comes into play here is the laxity of the media
> (commercials,
> > > etc.) towards grammar. etc.
> > >
> > > I took a grammar class at SVSU, and argued throughout the semester with
> the
> > > prof about "grammatical correctness" and Standard English--I'm all for
> both
> > > of those issues. But as Dr. Segel made me realize (after a fashion),
> there
> > > are just too many thngs on the periphery that inhibit the goals of
> Standard
> > > English and grammar.
> > >
> > > As a wc tutor, I don't know how to motivate my tutees to discover their
> own
> > > intrinsic motivators. If anyone has ideas about how to do this, please
> let
> > > me know.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Never look where you're going--you'll only scare yourself"---
> > >
>
> > > P.J. O'Rourke
> > >
> > > Meg Larson
> > > Saginaw Valley State University
> > > mgl@tardis.svsu.edu
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Christine Cozzens <FAIRVIEW@worldnet.att.net>
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list <wcenter@ttacs6.ttu.edu>
> > > > Subject: Motivating Correctness
> > > > Date: Sunday, November 24, 1996 5:30 PM
> > > >
> > > > I'm asking what we can do about motivating correctness as much as
> > > > anything else. One thing instructors do in courses--writing courses,
> at
> > > > least--is to create opportunities for publishing students' work:
> class
> > > > books, assignments that are letters to the editor or other
> publishable
> > > > forms, texts that become web pages, and so on. Do any writing
> centers
> > > > publish student work?
> > > >
> > > > I have a personal reason for asking this question about motivation.
> i
> > > > was an English major, gung-ho and all that. I had a fair grasp of
> > > > grammar and correctness--probably better than most of my peers--but I
>
> > > > didn't take it seriously until I started to publish in a small way in
>
> > > > student publications, etc. Suddenly I realized that people were
> reading
> > > > my writing, that my writing was out there, and I really, really
> wanted
> > > > it be right in every way. It was then that I started to learn the
> rules
> > > > and I soon became kind of a fanatic about it, though I try to keep
> that
> > > > part to myself! So if it took me--an English major type and a
> language
> > > > fanatic--that long and that route to finally learn the rules (or
> begin
> > > > learning them--I'm still learning!), I can only surmise that students
>
> > > > without those predispositions must need at least as much if not more
> to
> > > > motivate them.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a writing center role here?
> > > ------=_NextPart_000_01BBDA33.BD092120
> > > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > > <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
> > > color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">As I replied earlier, Christine, I =
> > > don't know how the writing center can possibly take on the role of =
> > > intrinsic motivator--in thirty minutes, there's barely enough time to =
> > > address the things that need addressing, etc. The kind of =
> > > motivation you're talking about is intrinsic, and no amount of
> extrinsic =
> > > motivation can foster, in students, the desire to be intrinsically =
> > > motivated. In other words, the desire to be grammatically correct
> =
> > > has to come from inside the student and, as a tutor in the writing =
> > > center, I don't see how I can "make" this happen in the =
> > > limited amount of time I have to spend with students who seek my help;
> =
> > > for the most part, students still see me as the "fix it" =
> > > person. I agree with your assumption that if it's mine, and it's
> =
> > > going to be published, I want it to be perfect, but the desire comes =
> > > from inside me, and no one person or thing put it there; it stems from
> =
> > > the "it's got my name on it" place. The first thing I =
> > > have to realize, as a wc tutor, is that not everyone sees writing
> =
> > > the same way I see it.<br><br>I guess the real problem here is how to =
> > > make students proud of their authorial exploits and proud to admit =
> > > ownership thereof; as a tutor I can encourage this to a certain extent,
> =
> > > but only if I ignore other factors, such as the parameters of a given =
> > > assignment, the instructor's predisposition towards grammatical =
> > > correctness, etc. And then, the other thing that comes into play
> =
> > > here is the laxity of the media (commercials, etc.) towards grammar. =
> > > etc.<br><br>I took a grammar class at SVSU, and argued throughout the =
> > > semester with the prof about "grammatical correctness" and =
> > > Standard English--I'm all for both of those issues. But as Dr. =
> > > Segel made me realize (after a fashion), there are just too many thngs
> =
> > > on the periphery that inhibit the goals of Standard English and =
> > > grammar.<br><br>As a wc tutor, I don't know how to motivate my tutees
> to =
> > > discover their own intrinsic motivators. If anyone has ideas
> about =
> > > how to do this, please let me know. <br><br><br>"Never look where
> =
> > > you're going--you'll only scare yourself"---<br> =
> > >
> &=
> > >
> nbsp; &n=
> > >
> bsp; &nb=
> > >
> sp; &nbs=
> > >
> p;  =
> > >
> ; =
> > >
> P=
> > > .J. O'Rourke <br><br>Meg Larson<br>Saginaw Valley State =
> > > University<br><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mgl@tardis.svsu.edu</u><font =
> > > color=3D"#000080"> =
> > >
> &=
> > > nbsp;<br><br><font color=3D"#000000">----------<br>> From: Christine
> =
> > > Cozzens <<font =
> > > color=3D"#0000FF"><u>FAIRVIEW@worldnet.att.net</u><font =
> > > color=3D"#000000">><br>> To: Multiple recipients of list
> <<font =
> > > color=3D"#0000FF"><u>wcenter@ttacs6.ttu.edu</u><font =
> > > color=3D"#000000">><br>> Subject: Motivating Correctness<br>>
> =
> > > Date: Sunday, November 24, 1996 5:30 PM<br>> <br>> I'm asking
> what =
> > > we can do about motivating correctness as much as <br>> anything =
> > > else. One thing instructors do in courses--writing courses, at =
> > > <br>> least--is to create opportunities for publishing students' =
> > > work: class <br>> books, assignments that are letters to the editor
> =
> > > or other publishable <br>> forms, texts that become web pages, and
> so =
> > > on. Do any writing centers <br>> publish student work? =
> > > <br>> <br>> I have a personal reason for asking this =
> > > question about motivation. i <br>> was an English major, =
> > > gung-ho and all that. I had a fair grasp of <br>> grammar and
> =
> > > correctness--probably better than most of my peers--but I <br>> =
> > > didn't take it seriously until I started to publish in a small way in =
> > > <br>> student publications, etc. Suddenly I realized that =
> > > people were reading <br>> my writing, that my writing was out there,
> =
> > > and I really, really wanted <br>> it be right in every way. It
> =
> > > was then that I started to learn the rules <br>> and I soon became =
> > > kind of a fanatic about it, though I try to keep that <br>> part to
> =
> > > myself! So if it took me--an English major type and a language =
> > > <br>> fanatic--that long and that route to finally learn the rules =
> > > (or begin <br>> learning them--I'm still learning!), I can only =
> > > surmise that students <br>> without those predispositions must need
> =
> > > at least as much if not more to <br>> motivate them. <br>>
> =
> > > <br>> Is there a writing center role here?</p>
> > > </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
> > > ------=_NextPart_000_01BBDA33.BD092120--
> > >
> > >
>